[00:00:11] Alright, we are back to Episode 2 with Jason and today, Jason, what are we talking about?

[00:00:21] I believe we're talking about Salutogenesis today.

[00:00:27] Is this your favorite topic?

[00:00:32] Sometimes. I guess I would vacillate from Salutogenesis to Eudaimonia.

[00:00:41] Salutogenesis is more kind of the concept, whereas, well, Eudaimonia is a concept as well,

[00:00:48] but it seems that Eudaimonia is more the application of Salutogenesis.

[00:00:55] If that makes sense.

[00:00:56] Okay. Yeah, I mean, we'll take it.

[00:00:59] Alright, so, you know, we talked about a little bit in the first episode,

[00:01:05] and thank you to everyone who's listening, watching this show.

[00:01:09] We've got good response to the first episode, already thousand plus downloads for the first episode alone.

[00:01:16] So that's great. Thank you.

[00:01:17] And we want to go deeper today in Salutogenesis, and we want to uncover how Jason can bring his expertise

[00:01:28] and share his views and tell us more about it.

[00:01:30] So, Jason, directly going into the first question, can you again explain to our listeners what exactly it is,

[00:01:39] and how is it different from a traditional focus of healthcare?

[00:01:46] Sure. So, a little background.

[00:01:49] Salutogenesis was introduced in the late 1970s by Aaron Antonovsky.

[00:01:55] He's a medical sociologist, and his work focused on understanding how people maintain and move towards health,

[00:02:04] even when faced with significant adversity.

[00:02:09] And he created the salutogenic, or he coined the term salutogenesis,

[00:02:17] and then he created the model based off of the health continuum, which is kind of what we talked about last time,

[00:02:27] where you've got illness to one side of this continuum and health to the other side.

[00:02:35] And he emphasized the importance of a concept that he called the sense of appearance.

[00:02:40] And that's a, it's kind of a psychological framework that influences how we perceive and respond to challenges.

[00:02:49] And his framework had kind of three main components.

[00:02:56] Comprehensibility, manageability, and meaningfulness.

[00:03:01] And that's just the, the ability to make sense of life's events.

[00:03:08] Manageability is having resources and stressors and meaningfulness is the finding purpose in, I guess, life's challenges.

[00:03:17] And so, well, his, his ideas primarily address the psychological and social aspects of health.

[00:03:25] I look at it more from a systems orientation point of view.

[00:03:34] And so as an engineer, I guess I focus on the physical and chemical foundations of health factors like nutrition and environmental influences and cellular resilience.

[00:03:50] And I'd like to, I guess, introduce the concept of balance, daily balance to this, where bodies, they're constantly weighing between and balancing between resources and stressors.

[00:04:08] And how we adapt to that dynamic balance each day determines whether or not we move towards resilience or dysfunction on that, on that spectrum.

[00:04:21] And I can explain the balance a little bit better.

[00:04:27] And let's, let's name it and call it the eudaimonic scale.

[00:04:32] So you've got resources on one side of the scale.

[00:04:35] I envision this as, you know, the fancy old proper scales or graph scales.

[00:04:42] And so on one side, you have the resources, which is the positive inputs that support health, such as the nutrients, a supportive environment and practices that enhance well-being.

[00:04:55] And then on the other side of that scale is the stressors.

[00:05:00] And those are the challenges or demands that test our system.

[00:05:05] And then the kind of the balance between the two determines whether or not that particular stressor or your adaptation to that stressor is positive adaptation or a negative adaptation.

[00:05:23] And if you think about the way that I think about it is, you know, the little, the fulcrum bar on a scale where you've got a counterweight that you can adjust.

[00:05:35] Well, every day, generally as we sleep, right, is when adaptations, most adaptations occur.

[00:05:42] Assuming that we have enough resources to handle stressors of that day, then it tilts a little bit towards the resilience side and we get to add a little bit more resilience.

[00:05:56] And if it tilts the wrong direction, well, then we add a little bit more dysfunction or move our little counterweight the other direction.

[00:06:07] And now I guess that the concept of balance there is important because you can't have no stressors because if you have no stressors, you know, it's going to flip your scale over and there's nothing for your body to adapt.

[00:06:26] And so that that's really the balance that we're kind of always stuck dealing with.

[00:06:34] And unfortunately, it seems like the everything is kind of stacked against us.

[00:06:40] Anything negative will push us to the negative.

[00:06:43] But if you get all positives, it doesn't push it to positives because there's nothing for your body to adapt.

[00:06:51] And is that does that make sense so far?

[00:06:54] Yeah.

[00:06:55] OK.

[00:06:56] And go ahead.

[00:06:59] Oh, and I was going to say that.

[00:07:05] So it to contrast with that, that would traditional health care, traditional health care focuses mostly from a a or on the concept genesis, which is identifying and eliminating disease.

[00:07:20] Pathogenesis is something bad is causing this disease as opposed to the salutogenesis side is something good is creating health.

[00:07:35] So that's the difference.

[00:07:38] And would you I guess this is more of a philosophical question here, like.

[00:07:46] Even though both is like, you know, both of these approaches are for to tackle health in some way, like one is more reactive, the other is more proactive.

[00:07:57] But the way we think about health and to the point even now, of course, things are changing.

[00:08:04] It's very much still very reactive.

[00:08:06] Was it was it like I don't know in.

[00:08:10] Again, I'm not an historian.

[00:08:12] I don't know what's the history of how these habits were formed that we always viewed health more of a reactive rather than not as a way of, you know, things can be controlled or change from the beginning.

[00:08:24] And that would lead to better life afterwards.

[00:08:26] It is it is it is a common knowledge, but not practice as such on a mainstream medical or how its medicine is done.

[00:08:35] Right.

[00:08:36] So why do you think that is kind of our society is absorbed?

[00:08:41] You know, like is like trapped into that kind of mindset up until now.

[00:08:45] Any thoughts on that?

[00:08:48] Well, so lifestyles in the past were much closer to nature and therefore inherently more solutogenic than they are today.

[00:08:57] You know, people's lives involve a lot more physical activity, whole foods or organic foods necessarily.

[00:09:07] And fewer synthetic and environmental stressors, perhaps fewer stressors.

[00:09:15] And so all of this naturally supported our resilience and overall well-being.

[00:09:23] But in truth, if you know, if our ancestors, they wouldn't go see a physician unless they had a problem.

[00:09:34] So it was still a pathogenic model.

[00:09:36] It's just that our ancestors didn't really have to worry about the solutogenic side or the building resilience side.

[00:09:45] That just happened naturally.

[00:09:47] So that doesn't happen much anymore today.

[00:09:51] We have to go out and exercise.

[00:09:54] We want to get exercise in general unless you're working in fields.

[00:09:59] And it's very easy to eat a diet nowadays devoid of nutrition and in excess with palate.

[00:10:10] So the solutogenic side of the balance there wasn't something that our ancestors really needed to give much thought to.

[00:10:23] That just happened.

[00:10:24] And that's the difference nowadays.

[00:10:26] Now, you can argue that the medicines and various things that a physician would have given ancestors is more solutogenic than the drugs and various things that we would get today.

[00:10:41] But the approach was still pathogenic in that there's something wrong with you that we need to fix.

[00:10:48] Here, take this tincture for whatever.

[00:10:54] So, you know, are the conventional healthcare systems deeply rooted in that crisis-oriented mindset focusing on addressing immediate problems?

[00:11:07] You know, saving lives, managing symptoms, and intervening during acute illness.

[00:11:18] And historically, that approach made sense because most major challenges were acute, such as infection, injuries, and childbirth complications.

[00:11:33] And modern medicine, you know, to its credit has developed our full tools to handle those crises.

[00:11:39] And that reactive approach has been incredibly effective for acute conditions, for sure.

[00:11:46] So really, the ecosystem, the environment, all those things have gone worse in a way of it's gotten far from the solutogenic life.

[00:12:00] Lifestyle, to say so, as it existed.

[00:12:04] And that has kind of put us in more towards the medicine, how it's practiced now.

[00:12:12] Like, and that's the risk of it here.

[00:12:14] Would you say, like, could solutogenesis approach work alongside traditional medicine?

[00:12:21] Or does it require, like, a complete mind shift in mindset?

[00:12:26] Is it?

[00:12:28] No, not at all.

[00:12:30] Solutogenesis is completely complemented to conventional medicine.

[00:12:36] Again, the challenge that we face today is that because we no longer live inherently solutogenic lifestyles,

[00:12:43] the health-promoting side of that spectrum doesn't just take care of itself anymore.

[00:12:47] And conventional medicine has largely ignored that side of the scale and focuses almost completely on responding to the seeds.

[00:12:56] But, no, solutogenesis doesn't place the pathogenic approach.

[00:13:01] We still have to eliminate what's harmful and respond to crises, for sure.

[00:13:07] And it can, solutogenesis integrates, I think, seamlessly along with conventional medicine,

[00:13:13] proactively supporting overall health, resilience,

[00:13:16] so that fewer people reach the point of needing reactive treatments.

[00:13:20] It's in the third one.

[00:13:23] I was going to say that by, you know, so you don't break your leg, there's not much you can do about breaking your leg.

[00:13:37] And, but I guess that's not really true.

[00:13:39] You could actually strengthen your bones quite a bit.

[00:13:42] But, and a solutogenic lifestyle, working out in the fields, you're going to have much better loneliness.

[00:13:48] So, I guess I'll take that back.

[00:13:52] Hopefully, with a more solutogenic lifestyle, we'll even break our bones less.

[00:13:58] But, for when it happens, we absolutely still need the pathogenic approach as well.

[00:14:05] So, in practical terms, what does this lifestyle look like?

[00:14:12] Are there habits or practices that define the solutogenic approach to health that anybody can, you know, go ahead and start implementing?

[00:14:24] What are those, like, how does those look like?

[00:14:28] Can you explain a little bit about those?

[00:14:31] Sure.

[00:14:33] I mean, a solutogenic lifestyle, or maybe I'd call it a eudaimonic lifestyle, is really about creating balance between giving the body what it needs and eliminating what it doesn't.

[00:14:44] In many ways, we kind of instinctively know what this means.

[00:14:48] It's eating a diet that meets our nutritional needs, reducing exposure to toxins, managing stress, regular exercise, connecting with others.

[00:14:59] And that holistic approach, you know, can include daily habits like spending time outdoors, focusing on clean nutrition, staying active, nurturing positive relationships.

[00:15:13] The aim is to create an environment, both internally and externally, where health can truly flourish.

[00:15:22] As I said, we kind of know these principles.

[00:15:25] But we often underestimate their importance for long-term well-being.

[00:15:29] I think that's the big point.

[00:15:32] Everyone knows this stuff.

[00:15:34] I know I should be working out more and exercising more.

[00:15:39] But we forget how impactful and how really important that is until you get sick.

[00:15:45] And would you say, like, it is just, is it just like because we are so consumed in what we are doing, it's just not, even though there is some awareness, we're not, like, inclined to take action towards it.

[00:16:03] Right.

[00:16:04] So, and what is that?

[00:16:07] Is that really the mindset shift?

[00:16:10] Or is it not like, so in your words, basically things exist, right?

[00:16:15] It's really the mindset.

[00:16:17] It's not, we are not doing the action.

[00:16:19] That's what the problem is.

[00:16:20] But the outside ecosystem has changed and it has moved us more away from the thing.

[00:16:25] The food we are eating is not that good enough or you cannot just keep it, those healthy foods for more affordable costs to say so.

[00:16:34] And those things are creating natural boundaries.

[00:16:37] And that's probably prohibiting people from attaining those things, right?

[00:16:42] So where do you see is the big problem?

[00:16:44] Is it just like the mindset itself or is it just like because we are the product of the society and how this is, we are just fed into this whole black hole to say so.

[00:16:55] And that's leading it to this, that we are, we are finding it hard to come out of those habits.

[00:17:02] I would say a little bit of both, but in the same way that conventional medicine has developed from, you know, pathogenesis where broke my leg.

[00:17:16] I need to go to the physician to have him help me get it fixed.

[00:17:22] We are, we have this history of none of our ancestors needed to do all the special stuff to make sure that they were healthy.

[00:17:28] And so we kind of have this baked into us, this feeling that, well, we should just be healthy.

[00:17:35] If we're not sick, we should just be healthy.

[00:17:38] And that pathogenic approach to conventional healthcare reaffirms this for sure.

[00:17:45] And so it becomes really easy to forget about the solutogenic side.

[00:17:51] Yeah. And if, I guess, more in your ecosystem, can you share an example where you saw someone's health and you saw the transformation where there was intentionally made this effort to live this lifestyle?

[00:18:10] And it could be you as well, if you want to share your personal story, but if someone, again, can you share an example of what they did and how it transformed and what stage it started and they started making these changes and how long it took?

[00:18:27] Sure. Actually, I'd like to answer the question a little bit differently.

[00:18:31] It'd be easier to answer with, say, you know, oh, I changed my day when I started exercising and everything in my life.

[00:18:39] And I changed my day when I started exercising and everything in my life.

[00:19:06] So, and that's treating untreatable diabetic wounds.

[00:19:12] So first, a little bit background for anyone unfamiliar with diabetes, but it's, diabetics often develop severe foot wounds for blood circulation, nerve damage, and weakened immune response.

[00:19:29] And the wounds then progress quickly and heal poorly and are prone to infection because high blood sugar levels then also exacerbate the situation by damaging tissues.

[00:19:42] And that just, that creates a favorable environment for microbes.

[00:19:47] Now, convention treatment is multifaceted with that, but it often fails.

[00:19:56] And primarily it's because the infection can't be eliminated.

[00:19:59] And then amputation becomes the only option to save patients' lunch.

[00:20:04] So, let's apply the principles of pseudogenesis here to the, you know, diabetic wound and what do we see?

[00:20:13] So, what shouldn't be present?

[00:20:14] Well, that's microbes and excessive oxidative strips.

[00:20:18] What should be present?

[00:20:20] This next one.

[00:20:21] Nutrients and balanced cellular signal.

[00:20:27] So, let's focus on those.

[00:20:29] We want to eliminate the microbes.

[00:20:31] We want to reduce oxidative stress.

[00:20:33] We want to increase specific nutrients and then we want to reset the cellular signal.

[00:20:42] So, I'd actually like to tell you a little story about somebody named Warville.

[00:20:52] So, he was a diabetic who, he was a runner.

[00:20:58] He would run to help manage his disease.

[00:21:00] He developed a severe foot wound and conventional treatments fail, leaving amputation as the only option.

[00:21:10] And that would have really sucked for him because then he wouldn't be able to run, at least not for a really long time.

[00:21:18] And only if he could get suitable obstetrics.

[00:21:23] Which meant that you're taking away the one thing that he was using to help manage the disease in the first place.

[00:21:34] So, our team applied a salutogenic treatment to this.

[00:21:39] And it was after, I think it was probably, normally it's about a month of failed standard of care or conventional treatment.

[00:21:50] When they say, okay, we can't, we can't, this is untreatable, we can't fix it.

[00:21:56] But after, within days of a salutogenic approach, the wound healed.

[00:22:07] And Eduardo got to avoid amputation and was back to running fairly quickly.

[00:22:16] And the short, maybe a month or two after, you couldn't even tell that there was ever a wound there in the first place.

[00:22:26] Which is kind of amazing that even the, any starting didn't.

[00:22:32] And now, Eduardo actually uses this approach proactive to prevent infections.

[00:22:44] And so, I guess what I found so amazing with that is this approach didn't specifically force anything to happen at the cellular level.

[00:23:00] It simply eliminated what shouldn't be there, increased what should be there, and let the body heal the way the body should heal.

[00:23:11] And the results from the salutogenic approach were significantly better in the conventional approach.

[00:23:21] I don't know, I thought that was pretty exciting.

[00:23:26] And this, in this example for him, did it just reverse that episode or is it like it reversed the condition itself, the diabetes?

[00:23:36] No, no, no.

[00:23:36] So, this doesn't, we weren't, we weren't looking systemically, right?

[00:23:40] So, sure, you could, you could perhaps try and address the diabetes systemic.

[00:23:47] But that's perhaps a bigger problem with lots of other steps too.

[00:23:53] And, you know, depending on whether you're a type one or a type two, lifestyle changes might not fix it, that might just make it.

[00:24:04] Absolutely.

[00:24:05] You should be doing this.

[00:24:06] But what I wanted to do here, I mean, in response to your question, is take the salutogenic process and apply it locally just to the wound itself.

[00:24:17] Yeah.

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:19] Yeah.

[00:24:20] And I guess I should also say we've now repeated this multiple times and we have yet to find an untreatable wound that didn't respond extremely favorably.

[00:24:34] And remember, all of these are treatable.

[00:24:36] It was.

[00:24:37] The next step is amputation because conventional medicine couldn't treat the wound.

[00:24:42] Wow.

[00:24:44] A little bit more towards the science part of it.

[00:24:49] So, obviously, everybody, you know, you can talk.

[00:24:53] These are the good things you should do.

[00:24:55] And that's your, that's the kind of lifestyle or approach you need to follow.

[00:24:58] But how much of this has been kind of, not to say stamped by science, but more like, like, are there any specific studies or research?

[00:25:12] Those are done more to back this approach and confirm that, you know, this is what science support, this philosophical concept.

[00:25:22] Is there something like this exists or are there any specific studies, papers or any evidence on those sites that exist, which kind of like says, like, we have done on this concept.

[00:25:34] This is what it looks like.

[00:25:35] Any thoughts on that?

[00:25:37] Any insights on that?

[00:25:39] Sure.

[00:25:40] There's lots of science behind salutogenesis in general.

[00:25:44] And again, if we back up now to the systemic level, that's where most of this is being focused, right?

[00:25:50] Research in nutrition and exercise physiology and stress management consistently show the benefits of building resilience and supporting health.

[00:26:00] Nutrition studies, right?

[00:26:01] Nutrition studies highlight how diets rich in whole foods and essential nutrients and antioxidants improve immune function and reduce inflammation and enhance cellular repair.

[00:26:16] Research and exercise demonstrates that regular physical activity by strengthening the cardiovascular system and supporting metabolic.

[00:26:26] And so even improving mental evidence from studies on stress management, mindfulness and meditation, even just spending time in nature shows measurable.

[00:26:41] If it's including reduced cortisol level, then it hits immune response and greater mental clarity.

[00:26:50] So you could argue that Antonovsky is the way that he presented salutogenesis is something of a philosophical concept.

[00:26:59] He's much more tied to the psychological disease.

[00:27:05] But at least the way that I think of salutogenesis, it now has a solid foundation in evidence-based science grounded in biochemistry and physiology, cellular biology.

[00:27:18] And really, the data is clear with all of that.

[00:27:21] We support the body's natural processes, the results.

[00:27:26] And have you seen, I guess, any examples of health systems or doctors?

[00:27:36] How are they integrating these salutogenic principles into their practice?

[00:27:42] Can you talk about three examples of what you've seen or what you see coming, probably in coming days?

[00:27:52] Sure.

[00:27:53] So, integrative practitioners are incorporating salutogenesis almost completely.

[00:28:00] Now, I would argue that in some cases they go too far, whereas they focus simply on, well, you know, here, take all of this nutrition, so on and so forth.

[00:28:13] And they end up swinging, insulin swings a little bit too far in that direction.

[00:28:22] But, sure, I think that incorporating, you know, preventive and supportive measures into routine care is where we should be starting.

[00:28:33] And that involves encouraging patients to manage stress, improve their diets, consider environmental factors.

[00:28:43] All of these small FIPS can make huge difference in time.

[00:28:48] But, I guess, right, did you have a question?

[00:28:54] I was going to say, like, I want to touch upon a little bit about the supplements and the drugs.

[00:29:01] Those are there nowadays, even though functional medicine and integrative medicine, even they still prescribe those, right?

[00:29:09] And, I guess, for my own clarity of thoughts here, just so I can draw a little bit more, you know, more boundaries between salutogenic and how we are doing other stuff.

[00:29:23] So, when I'm seeing GLP medications or supplements given to, by integrative or functional medicine physicians in general in their practices, even though those are helpful in a way.

[00:29:37] So, would this be considered not like the salutogenic approach when you go into applying these drugs or these medicine?

[00:29:48] Or would you say, like, no, as long as this is, like, not, like, you know, detrimental to the body or causing negative net delta, then it's really not the way.

[00:29:59] What's your take there?

[00:30:00] So, I get that the clear picture of, is there a line here of, like, prescription and drugs and do they still fall under this realm of salutogenic approach or not?

[00:30:12] So, very few drugs, what we call drugs.

[00:30:17] And, actually, I had to come up with a new term.

[00:30:22] My mother always used to, oh, that's a drug.

[00:30:25] And, you know, talking about caffeine or alcohol or, you know, aspirin as well.

[00:30:33] And the way that we use the term drug, really, I guess, most drugs, the way that we use that term, force some specific action.

[00:30:53] And that's, I would call that a kratogenic drug from kratos is forced in Greek.

[00:31:01] And so, yeah, I guess I am very interested in the advent of salutogenic drugs.

[00:31:14] Now, in that case, it's a drug simply because it has been approved, not because it's forcing some specific action.

[00:31:24] I'd like to see a lot more of that.

[00:31:26] And that's, yeah, that's where a lot of my interest really was.

[00:31:31] In developing drugs or getting things approved that are specifically supporting the body.

[00:31:41] Now, that can be both removing microbes, removing pathogens, but then doing such in a way that that doesn't interrupt the body's natural processes.

[00:31:57] And or if you can supply nutrients and such as well, so much better.

[00:32:06] But now we're kind of getting into the weeds of what you could do with salutogenesis.

[00:32:13] If you're talking about kind of more generally, what can, you know, what can normal doctors who wouldn't consider themselves integrative start doing?

[00:32:34] Or, I mean, as we discussed, you know, start talking about some of the lifestyle factors.

[00:32:40] And that's happening more and more.

[00:32:43] And, you know, taking nutrition, making sure someone's taking vitamins if they're not getting a sufficient amount of the nutrients that they need from their diet.

[00:32:53] And that's harder to do nowadays, right?

[00:32:55] Because, you know, the soil is being depleted, so on and so forth.

[00:32:58] We get less vitamins in the foods that we're eating.

[00:33:02] And then that gets even worse if you move away from organic food.

[00:33:09] So one of the things that could be done kind of at a more systemic level for society or at least within a country is incentives could actually start playing a big role.

[00:33:21] promoting salutogenic practice, meaning like insurance companies could offer discounts to customers who spend a certain amount of time in the gym or purchase organic foods or participate in these programs.

[00:33:37] And it seems to me that without this type of incentive, people are going to have a hard time actually following through with these practices again until some event occurs.

[00:33:51] Now, that could be friends or family members or loved ones getting sick, or it could be them getting sick themselves.

[00:34:00] Problem is, if you don't make these changes until after you've gotten sick, well, it's much harder to go from sick to healthy and then continue on that path towards health.

[00:34:13] That's a lot harder.

[00:34:15] So if we can encourage people to do it earlier, that would be great.

[00:34:18] Okay.

[00:34:19] And a little bit tying back to ION Biotech and, you know, Eyeball, as in like it supports the salutogenicity.

[00:34:29] And this is by whatever you are doing at the outcome level.

[00:34:35] Could you touch upon how, what's, is it really focused on that tech is really focused on the cellular function and optimizing health through that?

[00:34:46] Or is it something else?

[00:34:47] Could you touch base on a little bit exactly what ION Biotech specifically there does?

[00:34:53] What role it plays in, you know, what part of healing or health there?

[00:35:00] Could you touch upon that, please?

[00:35:02] Sure.

[00:35:02] So ION Biotech really is the study and focus of what IONs or, and generally those are metals or sulfates.

[00:35:22] What, or specifically which ones of those and why and what happens when cells are under stress.

[00:35:32] Now, cells normally are under stress at local, at the local level.

[00:35:36] It can happen at the systemic level as well.

[00:35:40] But that's a, that's different or more difficult to apply to or different to apply to.

[00:35:47] And so with ION Biotechnology, we're really looking at what we can do simply by supplying the correct nutrients or a specific subset of important nutrients to the cells.

[00:36:01] And then what happens.

[00:36:04] And so that, that's a, that's a, almost completely cellulogenic approach.

[00:36:11] Now, yes, there is some at the genesis in there as well because, and actually maybe even a good deal because the ions at the concentrations, now I haven't presented much on this yet, but the ions at the concentrations that they're at are highly antimicrobial.

[00:36:29] So that's, that's eliminating what you don't want.

[00:36:33] And then the nutritive side is supplying what shouldn't be.

[00:36:40] And so when I contrast a cellulogenic drug to a cratogenic drug, I'm not really being quite so strict on the definition of cellulogenesis as to, I have to be adding something to increase health.

[00:37:02] Now, in the case of infection, you can subtract something to produce health as well.

[00:37:09] But I'm contrasting with a cratogenic drug in that the cellulogenic drug is supporting the body, either supporting it with nutrients or supporting it by eliminating what should be.

[00:37:22] The cratogenic drug, on the other hand, is forcing the cells that do, or the body to do a specific thing, whether the cells want to be doing that or not.

[00:37:36] And so that's where a lot of adverse side effects come from, because first of all, it's hard for us to develop drugs that do one thing and one thing.

[00:37:50] Normally, there's a whole host of things that go along with that.

[00:37:54] Many times, all of that host of things are things that we don't necessarily want.

[00:37:59] They just happen as well.

[00:38:01] And we want this one thing.

[00:38:03] And even if you've got a really good application here where, yeah, that one thing happened and it happened really well.

[00:38:10] Well, now we're banking on the fact that or the hope that the doctor prescribing that drug knows exactly what's going on at cellular level and knows, hey, this is what needs to happen.

[00:38:23] Okay, if they're right, things will probably work out pretty well.

[00:38:27] Right?

[00:38:29] It's not going to work out.

[00:38:32] And that's the difference.

[00:38:33] It's a ludogenic drug.

[00:38:35] We're not making any decisions.

[00:38:37] We're simply supplying everything that's needed and trying to remove everything that shouldn't be there and letting the body do what it does normally.

[00:38:49] Would it be right to state that this is more of an approach where there is, I don't know if no side effects, but less side effects to say so?

[00:39:02] To put simply, would you say that?

[00:39:07] Yes.

[00:39:08] There's significantly less side effects because we're not forcing the cells to do it.

[00:39:14] Now, I guess you can't really say there are no side effects because, let's say you're treating an infection and you're killing a bunch of microbes.

[00:39:23] Okay, well, the body's got to clear those microbes.

[00:39:27] So there could be different heart-hygreens reactions and such where the body is trying to now detoxify and get rid of all that stuff.

[00:39:36] Unless you're physically cutting it off and throwing it in the trash, the body's going to have to do that.

[00:39:47] Likewise, actually, I guess most of that would be with the detoxification pathways.

[00:39:52] And it's possible that somebody has poorly functioning detoxification pathways and then you go into their body and then give their body what it needs to go through and kill a whole bunch of pathogens.

[00:40:08] Now, if the body can't detoxify all of that well, sure, you could have some negative reactions.

[00:40:13] But those are a different type of a side effect.

[00:40:19] It's not a function of the drug, right?

[00:40:25] In this case, if we're talking about ion-bite technology, ion-bite technology isn't directly causing this.

[00:40:30] It's indirect from, okay, now the body is functioning and doing what it should have done.

[00:40:36] The problem is we're doing a whole bunch all at once.

[00:40:38] Now, the body has to clear out all the junk that it's creating.

[00:40:46] Do you see my differentiation there?

[00:40:50] And why I see that?

[00:40:51] I mean, so generally, those types of side effects are, well, you know, I had a cold and I'm really tired and I'm sleeping.

[00:41:05] Okay, okay.

[00:41:07] Is that a side effect of having the cold?

[00:41:10] Yeah, it is.

[00:41:11] But did the viruses actually cause that?

[00:41:13] No, that's your body's response.

[00:41:15] Your body is saying, hey, while we're killing off these bugs that have infected you, we don't want you to be expending more energy because we need lots of energy to fight this off.

[00:41:26] So, or you're tired, you're going to want to sleep all day and then, you know, the next day when your energy comes back, you can run around and go do things again because you'll be all done.

[00:41:36] Yeah.

[00:41:38] Okay.

[00:41:39] This is great.

[00:41:39] I mean, we are going to talk more in the coming episodes about more details on a few things that we discuss here.

[00:41:47] But to conclude today's episode, I guess one last question.

[00:41:55] What's one takeaway you hope everybody who's listening today, something that might inspire them to look at their own health differently?

[00:42:06] What would be that one thing you would like people to take away from this conversation today?

[00:42:13] Well, I guess the big takeaway is that lots of things are happening very quickly on the front lines of salutogenesis.

[00:42:27] It's becoming common knowledge that taking care of yourself means you're going to be sick less often.

[00:42:38] And it's becoming more and more common knowledge that this will also apply to chronic diseases.

[00:42:47] There's still a lot of, oh, anyone can get cancer.

[00:42:50] And, you know, it doesn't matter how healthy you are, how much you exercise, so on and so forth.

[00:42:54] Well, that's not true.

[00:42:56] So, yes, you can be exercising and otherwise in good health and still get cancer, but you can deal with it better the healthier you are.

[00:43:08] And you're actually less likely to get it the healthier you are.

[00:43:10] So I would still say you want to be healthy.

[00:43:16] But the other thing that I want to say is, so aside from the lifestyle changes and the kind of the systemic approach that we talked about,

[00:43:29] there's lots of innovative approaches and salutogenic treatments that are developing right now,

[00:43:38] and they're coming a lot faster than anyone would have thought.

[00:43:44] So Eduardo's story is actually a perfect example, right?

[00:43:48] By supporting Bum's natural processes, we've seen outcomes surpassing that of conventional medicine.

[00:43:57] Or pathogenic-focused medicine or pratogenic drugs, however you want to bundle that together.

[00:44:05] And his experience is showing that when we eliminate what shouldn't be,

[00:44:10] when we provide what's missing, he's capable of being able to heal him.

[00:44:15] And again, part of the exciting, or the exciting parts of the sense that these changes are really happening faster than you might have predicted.

[00:44:26] And we're seeing shifts in how we think about medicine, moving from not just managing disease to actively supporting health and resilience for sure.

[00:44:39] I guess this is only the beginning.

[00:44:41] I hope that listeners leave today feeling inspired by what's possible, not just for their own health, but for the future of healthcare as a whole.

[00:44:50] And we are seeing these changes at the systemic level as well.

[00:44:55] Insurance companies have started to, I don't know the exact word, not like reward, but incentivize if they monitor.

[00:45:06] People have done exercises and there are things like that.

[00:45:09] But at very, very surface level still, hopefully this needs to go more and more and more how these things should be built upon.

[00:45:19] But yeah, like you said, who's always listening?

[00:45:24] Hopefully more people get inspired to take this and take this too in their own lives and people around them.

[00:45:32] All right.

[00:45:33] Great.

[00:45:33] Thank you so much, Jason.

[00:45:35] This has been great.

[00:45:38] Thank you.

[00:46:10] Thank you.

[00:46:11] Thanks again for your time.

[00:46:12] Much appreciated.

[00:46:14] Thank you.