The Power of Mitochondrial Support and Cellular Oxygenation for Enhanced Wellness

[00:00:12] Hello and welcome back to Episode 6 for Health Unlocked, The Power of Salutogenesis, the show that's been still ranking in 8 countries in Apple charts in alternative health category. Thanks to all our listeners. Jason, how are you doing? Jason, I'm doing pretty good. As I mentioned, it's cold here. That's why I'm all kind of bundled up and I realize I've got like a heater blowing on my feet here.

[00:00:38] Jason, I think I'm going through what you call it, getting done with cold mode, even though it's cold, but my mind is resisting that it's five days of cold I want to get and change the mood. So I'm forcing that. All right, cool. Let's get started. Our topic for today, it's all about MOCO protocols, which is mitochondrial support and cellular oxygenation.

[00:01:04] We have touched briefly in our previous episode, but today is the in-depth version on this topic. So Jason, first of all, the MOCO protocols sounds like a groundbreaking approach to health. For listeners unfamiliar with the term, can you start by explaining what these protocols are and what makes them so unique?

[00:01:26] Sure. So MOCO stands for multifaceted optimal cellular oxygenation, and the MOCO protocols are my unique approach to solutogenesis. They combine cutting edge and cost effective health optimization technologies and advanced neurosomatic or NSI techniques, neurosomatic integration techniques.

[00:01:53] So the focus is on enhancing cellular and systemic health by improving mitochondrial function and optimizing how the body utilizes oxygen. So their multidimensional approach is what makes them truly unique, right? So they don't just address isolated issues. Instead, they create an environment where the body really thrive as a whole.

[00:02:23] This means targeting resilience and energy production at the cellular level while ensuring that all the systems are well coordinated. Ultimately, they're about optimizing what the body needs to perform at its best. Whether you're an athlete, recovering from an illness or injury or simply aiming to feel and function better.

[00:02:51] And it's... Have you seen much of it, especially on the practical utility of it, what's being used currently in our society? Just to touch upon that, you touched the body performance for athletes. Is that the most common use case you are seeing right now? So, yeah, I think so. There are...

[00:03:18] Again, there are a bunch of like little kind of biohacking places that are cropping up that have a bunch of these different individual modalities, and they use them all separately. And I assume that elite athletes are using them for sure because it gives them that extra edge while still not being performance enhancing from a drug point of view. So it is all salutogenic.

[00:03:49] For things like hyperbaric oxygen or something, not that that's actually part of the MOCO protocol, that would actually make it not very cost effective. We use exercise with oxygen therapy instead. So that essentially does the same thing, more efficiently, better, way less expensive, but exercise could be contraindicated, in which case then you're left with hyperbaric oxygen.

[00:04:14] And that's used, I think, a little bit more for people with bigger clinical issues. Got it. Okay. We will touch upon more examples later in the conversation, but you have obviously emphasized the importance of mitochondrial function in health, and the MOCO protocols incorporate this alongside NSI, which is neurosomatic integration.

[00:04:42] Can you explain why these factors are critical to overall health and resilience and how they work together? Yeah. So remember, salutogenesis represents a state of resilience, vitality, and adaptability. Really, the synergy between the cellular and systemic levels of the body.

[00:05:07] And this arises from the interplay of the two fundamental control systems, right? You have the mitochondria and the brain. And together, these systems regulate health from the bottom up and the top down, ensuring that the body functions optimally at every level. We've discussed mitochondria before, right? So that's the first control system, mitochondria. You can call that the spark of life.

[00:05:36] They're famously called the powerhouse of the cell, and they do deserve that title to get a little bit nerdy. Their inner membrane generates an electric field strength of about 30 million volts per meter. That's comparable to a bolt of lightning. And so that's mitochondria, lightning in a bottle. Wow. But energy production is really just the beginning.

[00:06:05] Mitochondria are actually distributed command hubs controlling critical processes. And there are a bunch of them. Sure, there's the energy and metabolic regulation. They produce ATP to power the cells. They regulate thermogenesis. They synthesize essential molecules.

[00:06:26] But then they also control cellular quality control through apoptosis and driving adaptation to stress and environmental changes. They maintain redox balance and detoxify harmful byproducts. They are controllers of signaling and communication. And these are big ones.

[00:06:54] So they regulate intracellular and intercellular signaling pathways. They coordinate the cellular processes and immune responses. And they send signals to the nucleus, influencing gene expression and adaptation. As a quick aside, remember we talked about how mitochondria might have been the driving factors for evolution.

[00:07:18] So not only are they driving adaptation on a really broad timescale, like over, you know, millions of years, thousands of years, but also adaptation over just the host's lifespan. I found that really interesting. So they also control longevity and aging, balancing repair and damage to influence cell aging.

[00:07:46] They regulate stem cell function and health span. They control processes that delay age-related decline. Then there's immune regulation. They modulate immune activity and inflammation. There's the coordination and integration. They ensure proper function and resilience all across the body. So that's a lot of stuff. And I realize I'm throwing lots of stuff out. You don't have to remember all this. There won't be a quiz.

[00:08:16] I'm not sure I could remember it too much either. So mitochondria really impact the health of every cell and by extension, the entire body, right? Almost every health-supporting activity, whether it's fasting, nutrition, exercise, meditation, whatever, they all enhance mitochondrial function and efficiency. So that's mitochondria.

[00:08:42] They provide the distributed bottom-up control, forming the biochemical foundation of health. The other one is the brain. And so in contrast, it provides the centralized top-down control, orchestrating systemic function, right? Every sensation, thought, action that you've ever had originates and occurred within the brain or is processed within the brain.

[00:09:08] So a quick aside here, and it's simply because whenever I talk about this and say brain, people immediately think mind. But neurosomatic integration focuses on the brain as a central regulator. So it's more brain-centric than mind-centric, right? So distinguish there.

[00:09:36] The brain process inputs, integrates signals, generates outputs, governs the both conscious and non-conscious. Notice I'm not saying subconscious. Activities. Acts as the central regulator of systemic function, whereas the mind is, you know, the seat of consciousness

[00:09:59] and self-awareness and abstract reasoning resides in the new brain, which is the neocortex and associated regions. So now that we've clarified that neurosomatic integration is brain-centric, movement is central to the brain's purpose. And you can actually say that we have brains because we move. This underscores the importance of the body in brain function.

[00:10:29] And neurosomatic integration focuses on three primary brain functions. Signal input, which is receiving the sensory input from the body and the environment. And signal integration is the second. And that is interpreting those signals and creating meaningful responses. And then the third is signal output. So that's generating the coordinated movement or behavior.

[00:10:54] And so by enhancing neurosomatic integration, we improve resilience, adaptability, and, I guess, efficiency. So targeted NSI exercises can refine motor patterns, stimulate brain function, and strengthen the brain-body connection.

[00:11:17] That's what ensures the top-down control operates at peak capacity, empowering the body to work as a cohesive unit. And I kind of want to explain something a little bit for you there. So I talked about we can kind of refine motor patterns, right? So let's say I'm trying to do – I assume you can see this – trying to do a coordinated movement here.

[00:11:48] Nobody cares that I can do that. That movement doesn't do anything for me. But the point is that by doing this smoothly and efficiently, what that means is that my brain is getting the signal inputs as to where my fingers are in space. And I can also do this, you know, without being able to look, right?

[00:12:11] So I can figure out where my fingers are in space, and then that signal sent to the brain, my brain integrates that, knows what I need to – what motor outputs need to get sent so that I can coordinate it or in a coordinated fashion touch my fingers. And honestly, you actually get more benefit from the things that you can't do very well. If you can do something and you're really coordinated and smooth with it, well, then your brain already has that.

[00:12:42] Your brain's pretty good at that. Now, on one hand, that can be a sign that you've actually got good neurosomatic integration, but it's not helping you increase your neurosomatic integration because your brain's already good at that. So we end up working on all sorts of things that are weird, you know, whether you're doing all sorts of stuff. Now, again, if you're good at it, well, then you want to find something you're not good at.

[00:13:05] And so really, the NSI there can lower systemic threat responses, fostering resilience and recovery, and strengthen communication for optimal systemic coordination. So those really are the two pillars there of this – of salutogenesis. And that is the mitochondrial health and neurosomatic integration.

[00:13:35] They work together to support wellness, right? Mitochondrial health supports bottom-up regulation, connecting cellular health to systemic function. And NSI optimizes top-down control, integrating inputs from the body and environment into systemic health. So I guess why does that matter?

[00:14:04] The MoCA protocols focus on both of those things, creating a practical roadmap to optimizing wellness. Well, this is the first time someone explained me really in the most, you know, the way I understood in the best possible way today is like brain is kind of – brain dictates movement. Movement is the signal that goes to brain. And that is kind of how the sync between the body movement and the brain works.

[00:14:34] So that was really interesting what you explained. And I want to actually – so I don't think of this as mitochondria is bottom-up, NSI is top-down. It's much more, you know, they're not two things working your – you know, the organisms in the center. It is merged together where the integration of all of that is the organism and us. Right, right.

[00:15:03] So, yeah, exactly. So this is more outside function of movement that we see it. That's the top-down control. And whereas the inside is bottom-up, that's what is happening at the cellular level, and that's putting it together. So that's all together that makes it. And in truth, you have to focus on both. Otherwise, you're missing half of what makes health. Yeah, yeah, exactly. All right.

[00:15:33] That's good. And now, obviously, you explained it, the bottom-up and top-down approaches, and it seems the way it's that balance. If we have that balance, the best way to achieve health is kind of that balance, right? Like using this top-down and bottom-up and top-down approaches. Can you give us some examples of MOCO protocols to move this from more practical examples so we can understand better?

[00:16:04] Sure. So I primarily use three core MOCO protocols to target mitochondrial health. And while there are lots of other modalities that can be stacked in for real specific adaptations, these three are foundational. The first protocol is the MOCO farm for red sauna. And it's all about preparing the body for exertion. And you can kind of think of it like a comprehensive warm-up.

[00:16:33] It's not really a warm-up, but that's the best way to think about it here. And it would focus on enhancing circulation, optimizing oxygen delivery, and kind of priming the body for activity. So that includes the farm for red sauna, which helps specifically. It helps improve circulation. It reduces blood viscosity and triggers protective stress responses that strengthen mitochondrial resilience.

[00:17:02] And then the next modality that's combined in there is electrotherapy. That boosts ATP production, improves blood flow, enhances cellular communication for mitochondrial coordination. The next one is bioidentical signaling. That supports proper protein folding, improves energy production, and builds resilience.

[00:17:31] And then the last with that is eyeball ion biotechnology, at least ligands. And that's the delivery of essential ions more directly to stress cells to meet their increased demands for repair. So together, that protocol results or ensures that the body's ready to perform its best by priming mitochondrial and cellular function.

[00:17:55] Then the second protocol is the MOCO-EWAT, or Exercise with Oxygen Therapy. And it's focused on flooding the body with oxygen, stimulating hormonal responses, and driving long-term mitochondrial adaptations. And so that's the components of that are adaptive contrast exercise with oxygen therapy.

[00:18:19] And then that is what ensures that the body has an abundance of oxygen, improving mitochondrial efficiency and cardiovascular function. There's blood flow modulation. There's blood flow modulation. And that promotes growth hormone release, enhances muscular efficiency, actually, by making it really, really hard. And supports, or at least makes you think it's really, really hard.

[00:18:48] And supports vascular remodeling for better oxygen delivery. And we also combine that with REHIT, which is the reduced exertion high-intensity interval training. So that's not really a thing. That's more what you're doing, right? So that's using short bursts of high-intensity to drive mitochondrial biogenesis. That optimizes oxygen use, triggers resilience through hormetic stress.

[00:19:16] It's actually the best way or the most efficient way to increase VO2 max. And I mentioned earlier that other modalities can kind of be stacked to drive specific adaptations. So, for example, you could actually use a recovery-focused exercise rather than the REHIT exercise. When high exertion might be contraindicated.

[00:19:43] Similarly, the blood flow modulation could be used independently of exercise oxygen therapy to stimulate hypertrophy, to grow muscle significantly faster than normal, or to promote tissue generation and repair during recovery from either exercise or injury or illness.

[00:20:08] There are other things like maximal voluntary contraction with isometric exercises can be incorporated to, for rapid strength and power gains without the typical associated hypertrophy. So all these variations make it possible to tailor the protocols to specific goals, offering kind of this flexibility to depending on individual's needs or objectives.

[00:20:38] So back to it. The third foundational protocol is the MOCO PBM or photobiomodulation. And then that kind of solidifies the benefits of the earlier stages and kind of kickstarts recovery, right? So photobiomodulation ensures oxygen is efficiently used by removing the nitric oxide from interfering with the delivery to mitochondria. We went over that more in depth last time.

[00:21:08] There's sound therapy, which promotes systemic relaxation and supports recovery by calming the nervous system. And low power pulsed electromagnetic field therapy that restores red blood cell function and supports tissue repair after the stress exertion.

[00:21:32] And just to point out, the reason why that doesn't come first is because it would sort of interfere with the electrotherapy. And the electrotherapy does a lot of the same things. And then remember, so the red blood cells can kind of separate and then they flow a little bit better. Well, after strenuous exercise, they can all clump right back together.

[00:21:57] In which case, hitting this again afterwards is also a good idea to ensure that we can kind of separate and not again. So I guess these three protocols really form kind of a comprehensive system for optimizing mitochondrial function. Together, they address almost every factor that might impair mitochondrial performance, right?

[00:22:25] You've got the oxygen transport or the blood flow, and that's addressed by the first protocol and a little bit by the third. Oxygen supply is optimized by the second. And then oxygen delivery to mitochondria is optimized by the third. So by combining them all, you're not only supporting mitochondrial function in the short term, but also creating this systemic and cellular conditions needed for long-term positive adaptation.

[00:22:52] And this approach amplifies the impact of each individual protocol, creating a synergistic effect to support overall health performance and recovery. And I don't want to spend much time on nutrition, but I'll just at least touch on it. So, you know, we don't want to overlook the importance of it in the MOCO protocols,

[00:23:19] but the nutritional strategies really vary pretty widely based on individual values and goals. For example, you know, someone who's vegan for ethical reasons obviously needs a different approach than someone battling cancer or someone focused on overall health optimization or someone trying to gain as much muscle mass as they can.

[00:23:47] And also one thing that we do is we sort of ignore the high-carb versus high-protein versus high-fat argument and focus on metabolic flexibility to keep mitochondria as healthy as possible. And there's a reason why high-fat diets do really well, because most people have been eating high-carb for such a long time

[00:24:11] that they're adapted to that, in which case high-carb is bad for them because that's all they ever do. And if they switch to high-fat, well, that's going to be good for them until they adapt to that. And then you want to be able to go back and forth between the two and everywhere in between. That's what you really want to focus on.

[00:24:33] But so I guess three things that I would mention that we focus on with the, I guess, nutritional protocols would be optimizing metabolic flexibility. From a product standpoint, I would say the essential amino acids, remember those are critical for cellular repair, mitochondrial function.

[00:25:02] And basically we need essential amino acids for the building blocks to do anything within the body. And the EAAs will ensure that the body gets sufficient amounts regardless of what their gut health or digestion is like.

[00:25:24] And then the other one I would say is eyeball or ion biotechnology, at least ligands, to supply essential ions to directly address either microbial load or conditionally reduce oxidative stress and optimize mitochondrial function. That kind of gives you sort of a solid overview of what to expect from the MoCo protocols. More so on the device side than the nutrition side. But that's a pretty good overview. Yeah.

[00:25:54] And you also touched upon briefly about the nutritional protocol. And a lot of people, including me, I think this happened to me as well. When I first started KetoDyte, first I was probably more on the carb diet and then I went on KetoDyte. It worked really wonders the first time. Amazing. And then I was continuing the KetoDyte for several months and then I started seeing that it wasn't working much.

[00:26:20] And that's where a lot of times, most of the people are just, they think like this is the diet, they just do it. Actually, we need to always be looking and making sure that flip-flop, right? Like the body is adapting. So you need to do that. And something you highlighted there reminded me of why I got sick and tired after a year that, oh, this doesn't work. And then for the investigation, I was like, oh, you know what? This diet is not going to work for me anymore. So it reminded me of...

[00:26:51] Now, it might sound like I'm promoting, oh, you should do a little bit of everything. Well, kind of. But unfortunately, it's not at the same time. Meaning you probably really do want to cycle back and forth between, you know, a high carb and a high fat diet. And, you know, go and cycle slowly from one to the other.

[00:27:17] So, you know, you're high carb, low fat, then medium carb, medium fat, and then high fat, low carb. And you probably want to cycle that. But most of that all is dependent upon what fuels your body's and your mitochondria really are using. So there's a lot to...

[00:27:43] I guess I'd say there's a lot of information you need to really be able to decide what you need to be doing and when. And that's hard to do on your own without, like, a device like the Lumen device. It's a little breath thing that you can blow into in the morning to see whether you're burning fat. Pretty much you want to be burning fat every morning when you wake up after not eating, you know, fasting for the night.

[00:28:04] And if you're not, likely that means that you are too adapted to burning carbs, in which case you probably need to be on a high fat diet until you get good at that. And then you can start switching. And it does a pretty good job of telling you what to do and when. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And then this is where the whole concept of intermittent fasting goes even further beyond it. Oh, sure. Yeah.

[00:28:31] You want to go further beyond and make sure, you know, 16 hours, that's the most popular one. People stop at 8 p.m. to 16 hours after that, they break the fast. And that actually really works well. I've tried it and kind of puts the things in balance without sacrificing and going on diets, like full diets. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

[00:28:54] Let's talk about the new Colorado experiment, which is something you labeled it for your own thing. And it's an ambitious application of the MoCo protocols. What inspired this experiment and how does it build on the legacy of the original Colorado experiment? Can you talk about that, please? Sure. Sure.

[00:29:19] So the new Colorado experiment really takes its name partly as a nod to the original 1973 Colorado experiment. But it's not a reverent homage or anything. It's more like a playful reference. The original was famous for extreme results. Participant gained like 63 pounds of muscle and lost 18 pounds of fat in just 28 days, which is a little ridiculous.

[00:29:48] You know, it made waves at the time, but it is a little ridiculous. And, you know, the results came from it was highly controlled conditions. It was an elite bodybuilder who had recently lost a lot of muscle mass and gained a bunch of fat. And the measurement methods weren't super accurate. And then the methods of the experiment weren't really applicable to the average person, for sure.

[00:30:17] So why the name? Well, we're located in Colorado. And next evolution wellness or new is eudaimonia's wellness division. So that gave us kind of the perfect acronym for the new Colorado experiment.

[00:30:39] And we're exploring or want to explore how to apply the MOCA protocols and how applying them can impact a much broader range of health and performance metrics, right? Including strength, brain health, fat loss, longevity markers like blood work, HIV, and systemic resilience.

[00:31:03] We do want it to be grounded in real results rather than aiming for, you know, really flashy, niche outcomes. We're interested in measurable, sustainable results across a diverse range of goals and real world scenarios. And again, right? So the MOCA protocols optimize mitochondrial function, cellular oxygenation, and the body systemic responses, creating this multidimensional approach to wellness.

[00:31:32] So the new Colorado experiment is about showing how the system can deliver transformative results for everyone, creating, yeah, not just elite athletes or bodybuilders, right? So, well, the name might hint at something extraordinary. It's also meant to poke a little fun.

[00:32:01] But, you know, we want it to be a modern science-based reimagining of that old idea, but grounded in health, not hype. Yeah, that's a good reference though. And can you share some of the goals that participants in the new Colorado experiment are targeting and why this multidimensional approach is so important?

[00:32:32] Yeah, so the participants are pursuing a wide range of goals. Hopefully this highlights the MOCA protocols versatility, right? Let's see. For instance, we've got longevity goals. That's the, you know, improved blood work, improved VO2 max, enhancing HRV or heart rate variability, increasing bone density, chronic conditions like managing joint pain, reducing inflammation.

[00:33:01] And hopefully there will be a couple of people that join that have more serious challenges to address like cancer. There's health and performance, improving brain health, focus and cognition, recovering from a traumatic brain injury. That will be interesting. I think there can be a lot of benefit there.

[00:33:28] Enhancing strength and power, such as, you know, vertical jump improvements, optimizing body opposition, such as fat loss and lean muscle gain. And then just also kind of everyday wellness, improving sleep quality or boosting energy levels. The other thing that's kind of exciting here is I'm hoping to have a fairly broad age range of participants from kids to seniors.

[00:33:55] And, you know, this diversity kind of allows us to see how the MOCA protocols can adapt to different life stages and needs, demonstrating their flexibility and really the broad applicability. And again, so, right, this multidimensional approach is crucial because health isn't one dimensional, as we've discussed.

[00:34:24] Our bodies are interconnected systems and isolating one goal often overlooks the broader context of how these systems work together. And so we're creating this synergistic effect by simultaneously addressing multiple aspects of health, like energy production, cellular oxygenation, and then the neurological function. And improvements in one area will then amplify the progress in another.

[00:34:50] So ultimately, our new experiment isn't just about solving those isolated problems or improving an isolated metric. It's about optimizing the whole system to help each participant achieve their unique goals and experience transformative health benefits. With all that said, it can have a focus on something specific that they want. So like vertical jump.

[00:35:20] Well, that's fairly specific. You can be healthy and not have a great vertical jump. And personally, I'm going to go through it as well. And I'm going to try and give myself as many goals as I can that might seem somewhat unrealistic,

[00:35:44] especially trying to tackle them at the same time because many of these things can be considered like mutually exclusive. And, you know, so if I'm upset because I don't reach all of my goals, I'm okay. Because I know that I'm going to try and put on so many goals that if I can actually achieve them all, that would be amazing. And hopefully everyone else has more focused goals. Yeah.

[00:36:15] More on the outcomes of these experiments. And again, they are not just about hypertrophy. They touch, like how you said, multiple aspects, right? Like brain health, vertical jump improvement and more. Why is it important to measure such a wide range of matrices? Can you talk about that, please? Sure. Measuring a wide range of these metrics is essential because health and performance are deeply interconnected, right?

[00:36:43] Focusing on just one outcome like hypertrophy only captures one part of the picture. And actually, Casey, the original elite bodybuilder who went through the Colorado experiment, he died fairly young. He died, I think, when he was 62.

[00:37:07] So even though he gained more muscle mass in a month than anyone else ever and dropped more fat than most people can do in a month as well and did both of those at the same time, he ended up not being super healthy. And that's not what we're going for. So here are some examples of interconnected, right?

[00:37:37] So you've got improving brain health and cognitive performance enhances focus, reaction times, and decision making. These improvements directly impact physical goals such as strength or vertical jump. Optimizing metabolic health through better blood work and VO2 max doesn't just contribute to longevity. It also boosts daily energy, endurance, and recovery.

[00:38:05] So, I mean, tracking these diverse metrics really helps us understand how these systems are working together and how they amplify each other. It allows us to tailor the MOCO protocols to meet the specific needs of each participant, whether their goals, mobility, reduced inflammation, enhanced athletic performance, and measuring multiple outcomes ensures we're addressing the whole picture.

[00:38:32] So, as we pointed out, health isn't one-dimensional. Neither is progress. Measuring multiple outcomes provides more holistic view of each participant's journey. It demonstrates the systemic lasting impact of the MOCO protocols. From better HRV to enhanced brain function and increased mobility,

[00:39:00] the metrics illustrate the transformative potential of a multidimensional approach to wellness. Yeah. Okay. And how do you see the MOCO protocols and the New Colorado experiment influencing the future of personalized health and wellness? I think we touched, barely scratched the surface in one of the previous episodes,

[00:39:30] but would love to go deeper into this and understand your thoughts. So, I see the MOCO protocols and the New Colorado experiment as a glimpse into the future of personalized health and wellness. So, right now, many approaches to health are either too generalized, meaning it's a one-size-fits-all solution, or too narrowly focused, addressing only one isolated symptom or goal.

[00:40:01] And what we're doing with the MOCO protocols is demonstrating how a truly multidimensional approach can optimize health at the root level, but also tailored to teach individuals unique needs and objectives. So, you know, a key part of this innovation, I suppose, is the combination of the bottom-up and top-down approaches,

[00:40:23] the bottom-up laying a strong foundation by addressing the factors like cellular oxygenation, mitochondrial function, energy production. And those factors are universally beneficial, right? It doesn't matter what the issue is. If you can work on those, they'll make everything better.

[00:40:46] Then the top-down is really that, so that enables the body to tailor its adaptive responses to specific goals, such as improving strength, enhancing cognitive performance, addressing chronic conditions. And together, these two, or, you know, these approaches allow for both general application and precise individual outcomes.

[00:41:16] Did that make sense? Yeah. Okay. So, and that the, so really the new Colorado experiment is a practical real-world example of what's possible when, you know, we've got advanced innovations are paired with a salutogenic philosophy focusing on creating health rather than merely addressing dysfunction.

[00:41:38] And diverse outcomes are measured, showing how the protocols can adapt to a wide range of goals. So we're not just proving their efficacy. We're redefining what it means to approach health holistically. And I believe, I hope that this work has the potential to inspire a shift towards more integrative systems-based methods

[00:42:04] that prioritize, you know, the resilience, energy production, and overall vitality that is important in the kind of foundations of salutogenesis. It's all about empowering individuals with tools and knowledge to take charge of their health in a way that's both, I guess, deeply personal and profoundly effective.

[00:42:29] And adoption-wise, are you seeing, I guess, is there enough worldview of this for adoption into existing practice of medicine? Where do you, what's your stance on that? Where do you see its stance right now?

[00:42:53] Well, I haven't seen too many people say, look, there are basically two things we need to focus on. One is the biochemical foundation of life and health, and that's mitochondria, right? They're actually, well, let me take that back. There are lots of people who are doing that now. They're organizations devoted to mitochondrial health. But that's the bottom up. And that's awesome. That's great. That is absolutely important.

[00:43:18] But then you also need to address the top down. And that is kind of where you get the specific signals that are telling the body how to react or how to adapt. So if you just do things that can improve mitochondrial function, yeah, that's great. You're going to be healthier.

[00:43:43] But you also want to drive adaptation that is functional as well. And not to say that mitochondria aren't functional, but at a more systemic functional level, which is the top down. And there are a lot of people who focus on that. But I haven't seen anyone put the two together and say, hey, you know what? Both of these things are really important because everyone's focusing on their own thing.

[00:44:14] And in this case, I'd love to be able to see people say, yeah, I focus on mitochondrial health. But you know what? That guy focuses on brain health, and that's really important, too. So you need to talk to both of us and vice versa. I'd love to start seeing that. And, I mean, eventually you're going to start seeing practitioners who then try to do both themselves and become an expert in both sides of this.

[00:44:39] And I think that's really going to start increasing salutogenesis rapidly. I have a client, actually, who just started working with us on their show. And his framework of philosophy, he's a doctor of physical therapy. And his philosophy is really physio-mental together.

[00:45:06] And he's really, within the practice itself, the patient journey by itself is a default playbook where it has to be mental health checkpoints, too, along with the physical. And he is trying to build more of that together, not look at this separately and that separately.

[00:45:30] So do you think that's kind of the first step for how the existing system can move into more of looking holistically? That's the way to go about it? Like, you know, partnering with, you know, other specialties and coming together, creating that holistic and then building that into patient's journeys or wellness journeys? That's probably the fastest for sure, right?

[00:45:56] Because, you know, if you've got somebody who's an expert in brain health and but remember, brain health can be split into, you know, what I'm calling brain function, neurosomatic integration. A subset of that would then be the mental health portion. Right. So I don't and and there with all of this, there is overlap. Right.

[00:46:18] Right. So even if you dig things to increase your mitochondrial health, well, there are going to be some systemic signals that are driving systemic adaptation as well and vice versa. If you do some things to let's say you were trying to just increase your vertical jump, so you're doing plyometrics or something along those lines. Well, that is also necessarily going to have some effect on your mitochondria. So there is overlap here.

[00:46:47] But I guess my point there is if you're actually focusing on mitochondria, there are a bunch of things that you can do to optimize that better, faster, quicker. Likewise, at the systems level, there's some things that you can optimize there to have that better, faster and quicker. Likewise, just going out and exercising and being healthier will increase your mental health.

[00:47:18] OK, but if you really want to increase your mental health, it makes sense to focus on it because that will probably increase it better and faster. But there's overlap with all of this stuff.

[00:47:30] So, yes, I believe that by partnering with other experts in one of those specific things, that will help us be able to address deficiencies in any one of these things a lot faster. Yeah. Yeah. OK. I'm optimistic. Let's see how we progress.

[00:47:54] But I also feel like a lot of this is change of what's going to happen is more going to be individual patients driven because we will be seeing more folks being aware of what they want. And then that will push it on the health system like, hey, this is what we want or I'm going to these two places. The reason is this because I can't get it in one place. Right. Yeah. So that's what is happening. And this is what the change.

[00:48:22] It's a good change, but it's not the most efficient change because then not everybody can afford it. Not everybody can access it. And that's where it becomes a challenge. This is why this needs to be built in the system somehow, which is my hope is this is where people like, you know, you are building and practitioners adopt those things. And that's where match and partnerships will happen. Right. That's the that's the hope there. Yeah. OK.

[00:48:48] So one last question on for those intrigued by the MoCo protocols, how can they learn and even experience these techniques firsthand in Colorado? Well, so I guess if you're curious, there are a few ways that you can learn more and even experience them firsthand.

[00:49:12] I guess one, I'd say stay tuned because we'll be sharing regular updates about the new experiment, including participants, progress and or key insights that we that we identify. So make sure to stay tuned to this podcast for the latest developments. The other thing that you could do is you can visit Next Evolution Wellness at Eudaimonia in Indian Hills, Colorado.

[00:49:41] If you're ready to take more hands on approach, I invite you to visit us. And so remember that the Next Evolution Wellness. Is the well, it's the home of the MoCo protocols for sure. And then also the new Colorado experiment. And that is Eudaimonia's wellness brand.

[00:50:09] Remember here, you know, we have access to these advanced techniques and then this specialized equipment. And we can see how the protocols can be tailored to your own health goals, whether it's, you know, optimizing recovery, improving performance, enhancing overall well-being.

[00:50:30] If you're local and, you know, in Colorado and local here and are willing to commit, say, probably six to eight weeks, you can apply to join the new Colorado experiment as a participant. And that's kind of a unique opportunity to be part of a heading edge research and experience these, the transformative potential of the MoCo protocols firsthand.

[00:50:58] Hopefully, there will be, you know, some future innovations. And I'm exploring ways to make the benefits of the MoCo protocols more accessible over time. That could include developing devices that integrate the foundational elements of the protocols and expanding into maybe even like distributed salutogenic recovery and optimization centers.

[00:51:27] Well, these will take time to implement. Hopefully, they reflect my commitment to creating scalable solutions for, you know, a wider audience. And is there a, so folks can go to Eudaimonia's website and find this information there more or is there any other?

[00:51:54] So we, well, actually, I guess that depends on when this podcast gets published. We used to have a website up for Next Evolution Wellness and we restructured things a lot, put it into a new location. It's still on the Eudaimonia campus here and made it look a lot bigger or it is a lot better, made it look a lot better, put it into a bigger room.

[00:52:24] It's a little bit less cramped. And I originally wasn't going to really promote Next Evolution Wellness until we get through this experiment with a bunch of people to find out what we can really do.

[00:52:43] Now, there have been a bunch of people have gone through MOCA protocols before, everything from trying to recover from long COVID to optimizing and or retaining elite athletic performance to, you know, someone who's getting migraines and it helped them not get migraines.

[00:53:11] Actually, I don't know that she got a migraine at all while she was doing all of this. She got to the point where she could feel it coming on and by focusing on it could stop it from happening. And well, a lot of brain things can benefit from oxygenating the brain to a significantly higher extent than you normally do, which the MOCA protocols are really good at.

[00:53:37] So that was that was really good, too. But I'd like to have a little bit more a little bit more broad reach into what we're looking at. Again, you know, hopefully there are some young people and old people are going to come through here and some middle of the road people. And then we can really look at what we want to target and what works best within the community, who we want to help.

[00:54:03] Is it, you know, are there elite athletes who want to come here and get better? Or, you know, or is it student athletes who want to be significantly better at their sport? Is it, you know, seniors want to age more gracefully and better? Or is it cancer patients?

[00:54:25] Now, on one hand, I kind of started all of this as a response to my parents getting cancer, my entire family getting cancer, my parents dying. So that's that's where I was looking at it from. But I don't know if that's what people want or not. And in truth, I'm not sure while I'm confident that I can help all of those people.

[00:54:50] I'm not sure that it's realistic to do all of them at the same time, meaning if you've got somebody who's visiting who has cancer and another person visiting who is an elite athlete. In the same setting at the same time might end up being a little bit awkward. I don't know how any of that will work. So how can you find out more about it?

[00:55:19] I guess I'll have to get the website back up. Yeah. So for our listeners, we will try to put the link either at the time of publishing it if it's ready. If not, we will update later on. And anyway, it's available. I can tell you what the address is. It's nextevolutionwellness.org. All right. There you go.

[00:55:45] OK, so we'll put a note here in the show notes as well and see if the website is live. If not, give it a few days and then it will be live. That's OK. That's how it is. OK. All right. Cool. Well, thank you once again, Jason. Lots of deep, in-depth discussion today. And as usual, I enjoyed it.

[00:56:07] And I'm sure our audience, more than one country, of course, who likes this show, continue to get more value of the information that you shared today. Thanks for your time. Much appreciated. All right. Thank you very much.